I’d have become Head of State if I wanted –Domkat Bali

General Domkat Bali
(rtd) , one-time most
senior military officer
and prominent player
in Ibrahim Babangida’s
military presidency but
now the Ponzhi Tarok,
says he never became
head of state because he rejected the
position. Excerpts:
After serving in the military for three
decades, how well will you say you have
adjusted to your new life?
I am yet to adjust to it. I have always
been a very free person in the sense of
going where I want to go to and doing
what I want to do and no restriction
whatsoever. In this traditional setting,
there are too many restrictions, too
many don’ts and dos and the don’ts
are more than the dos.
What is the major difference
between serving in the army and now
being restricted to your palace and
the community?
The major difference is the restriction.
In the army, nobody restricted me. I
would go to the office in my uniform
and do my normal work. When I return
home I change from my uniform and
live my life like anyone else. I am no
longer that free.
Why did you accept the call to
traditional leadership, especially
because it meant restricting you
from life the way you loved it?
I would have been castigated by my
people if I had declined the call. In
Langtang, chieftaincy issues run within
families. In our case there are five royal
families. It goes from one to another. It
got to my family in my time and when
they sent for me, I told them that I was
an ambitious soldier, I still wanted to
be a general. I told them to leave me
out of chieftaincy issues… I thought I
had gone away from it, not knowing
that they would come again. They said
our tenure was still there. Again, it fell
on me to come and become the Ponzhi
Tarok. Having dragged my feet in the
past, I didn’t want to do anything like
that again, so I accepted the offer.
Could you speak specifically of the
restrictions you said make your stool
different from your military office?
In the army, especially when you reach
the rank of a general, nobody restricts
you anymore. So, the restriction in the
army is not as much as the restriction
of a Ponzhi who is the head of a whole
tribe. Everybody frowns at you if you
are found on the street not behaving
the way a Ponzhi is expected to behave;
whereas I am a very carefree man. I like
to be myself. So there are many don’ts
and dos in the process of being the
Ponzhi.
What is the secret in people of
Langtang being so many and so
prominent in the military?
It’s the Tarok mindset. The Tarok
people want to do something manly.
They believe the army is for those who
are brave and strong and are ready to
go to war and so on. So, it is very
appealing to the mentality of a Tarok
man.
What about this view that so many
Tarok people got into the army and
did so well because Tarok people
who attained big offices early made
sure they helped their kith and kin
into the army?
Right from the word go, before the
Second World War, the Tarok joined the
army. My uncle died in Burma. My
father was born a twin. My father was
Bali and his twin brother was Tali. Tali
went to Second World War. We lost him
to the war and my father survived as a
single twin brother. Maybe because of
that my father became very close to
Jeremiah Useni’s father. My father’s
close relationship with Useni’s father, I
believe, cushioned for my father the
effect of the loss of his twin brother.
They remained very close friends up till
death. They died about the same time,
and it was Jeremiah Useni who buried
both of them.
Is any of your family in the army
now? Is any of your kids in the army?
I have only one son, and he doesn’t
appear to be keen on a military career.
He is in Canada and has not shown any
interest and I will not do anything to
force him to join the army. My prayer is
that he will come back and work in
Nigeria, not to remain in Canada. He
was trained in Canada and he has
tendency to want to stay there. He is in
the country (Nigeria) right now and was
here (Langtang) a few days ago and I
think he went to Abuja. Certainly, he
has shown no interest in becoming a
military man.
He took to a different profession?
He did electronics engineering. That’s
what he studied in the university. There
in Canada I think he does contracts,
jobs to do with electronics. They invite
him, they discuss ideas, negotiate price
and he does the work. He seems to like
it that way.
Looking back at your military career,
you rose to the highest position, you
were the most senior officer in the
Nigerian Army, yet you were not the
highest ranking because there was
military president and chief of
general staff (vice president). How
did that work out?
I was far senior to Babangida. Both
Babangida and Vatsa, I was senior to
them. I am an old man. Who did Vatsa
topple?
He was accused of an attempt to topple
IBB.
At that time, of the officers, I was the
most senior. So, if there was going to
be military head of government, it
ought to have been me, but I said I was
not keen. I was not interested in using
the gun to become president. It was not
attractive to me.
Does that say that you are a
democrat at heart?
Oh yes. Even during the civil war, I was
still a democrat.
Yet, you served under the military
presidency?
That is what the military is all about.
How do you reconcile the
contradiction of being a democrat in
the military?
I wasn’t meant to be a soldier from the
word go. I never wanted the army as a
career. It was Ahmadu Bello who made
sure I got into the army. I tell people
that the North died with Ahmadu Bello
and I mean every word of it. Ahmadu
Bello was truly a good Nigerian. He was
not biased. Ahmadu Bello came to Kuru
(near Jos), I think, in 1958. I was then
in Form Five. Ahmadu Bello went round
the North preaching to us to join the
military. He felt there were no sufficient
northerners in the services. He was not
looking for Fulani men to empower. He
was genuinely interested in seeing that
the North was not at a disadvantage
among the other regions of the country.
He came and got me, for instance, to
join the army. He did so not because he
despised me. As far as he was
concerned, northerners who were
qualified should join the services. When
he finished talking to us, he said who
among us were interested? .... He took
our names to Kaduna for us to sit for
the army examination.
So, he was instrumental to you
joining the army?
Absolutely! If he had not preached the
idea of joining the military to us I would
not have been interested.
You were not keen on being a
soldier: how did you go ahead to
make a success of it?
I prefer success to failure. I would have
hated to go to the NDA and make a
failure of it. In the NDA I had to do
everything to pass and come out well, if
nothing else but for the personal pride
of being successful.
If we may take you back to the IBB
era, in 1990 you were moved from
minister of defence to minister of
interior and you resigned. What
actually happened?
I think if it was that, I disagreed very
strongly because of the switch in
position, Babangida would have listened
to me. Maybe I resigned because I felt I
had overstayed my welcome, if you like.
Since my juniors had come and gone,
why should I be tagging around?
What is your relationship still like
with Babangida? Do you contact each
other?
I don’t; I am a very reserved person. I
keep to myself very much. Otherwise,
Babangida is generally a nice person.
Does he call you? Let’s say on
Christmas Day; does he call to say
‘Your Highness, Happy Christmas,
Happy Easter’?
He has done that once or twice, not
very often.
Did you foresee from the situation at
that time that IBB would handover
and Abacha would become head of
state?
I could have become head of state but I
let it pass. I wasn’t keen anyway, but I
could have been the head of state.
You mean if you had remained in the
army or if you had been the defence
secretary as Abacha was, IBB might
have handed over to you or you
would have taken over?
The military have their way of doing
things. If they staged a coup, the
leadership would emerge within the
military naturally.
It means if you had remained, it
would have been automatically you?
Do you regret leaving the army then;
because you would have been head
of state?
No, I don’t regret leaving when I did. If
I had wanted to be head of state I
would have become one. Merely saying
that I was interested would have been
it.
You did not wish to shoot into power?
Yes.
That time, Admiral Aikhomu, now
late; what was your relationship with
him?
Aikhomu was in the Navy. Coups were
usually a soldier’s affair. Aikhomu was
the closest to me in terms of seniority,
but we were in different services.
You played significant roles in the
reform of the Nigerian Army. How do
you view the army at that time
compared to what it is today?
Nothing seems to be the same in
Nigeria any more. Corruption has done
much damage to the nation. People
manipulate things one way or the other
in all sectors, including the military. In
my time, if you tried such rubbish, they
would kick you out.
With the benefit of hindsight, what
do you think of the 1976 episode
when General Iliya Bisalla and many
Middle Belt officers were executed
for the abortive coup, especially
because that episode affected top
military officers from Plateau State?
If Bisalla wanted to be head of state, he
should have taken decisive steps. It was
virtually like he was scared of becoming
head of state. He wavered too much.
Take my case; I didn’t want to be there;
finish. But he kept quiet. Dimka had
virtually made him head of state, only
for him to dash it away.
In efforts towards lasting peace in
Plateau State, how often do you
traditional rulers meet with the
governor to discuss peace and unity?
Jonah Jang became a know-it-all sort of
chap; and I am an arrogant man, if you
like, in the sense that I don’t go to
people begging for favours. Anyhow,
Gyang Buba (Gbong Gwom Jos) handles
chieftaincy issues. He is our chairman
(Plateau State Council of Chiefs). When
I became the Ponzhi Tarok, he came to
me and said, ‘I have been the chairman
of the traditional council but now that
you are here, you were by far my senior
in school’. He felt he should step down
for me; but I discouraged him. I said,
‘No I am in Langtang and I will be in
Langtang most of the time. You are in
Jos and the seat of the state
government is in Jos. It is good as you
are there and you can liaise with the
governor on behalf of us’.
But why have the crises in Jos
persisted?
What is the problem in Jos? It is always
Jos, this plateau crisis. Almost always in
Jos; Berom land, by the same Berom
people. So ask the Berom people what
is wrong with them.
Langtang South at a time was packed
full with Fulani. People were asking me,
why are you allowing the Fulani to stay
there. I tell them Fulani are the most
peaceful people to stay with. If you
don’t touch their cows, they will leave
you in peace. So let them be. And they
lived here peacefully until they parted
peacefully. But if they had dared kill a
Fulani cow, it would have led to another
thing.
What is the solution?
Again I would ask you to ask the Berom.
How often do you meet with the
governor to discuss issues of security
peace etc?
The governor hardly met me in Kuru.
He was in Kuru the year I was leaving
and yet he became a know- it-all kind of
person. I am a very arrogant man if you
like, I don’t go begging for favours
from people.
He doesn’t call you to discuss these
issues?
That his own business. Gyang Buba is
our chairman.
Some say the government has not
done enough to resolve issues in the
Jos crises. What is your opinion?
The truth is that in Berom land, the
women are more brave. Take note of
this, anytime there is crisis in Berom
land, you’ll find out that it is the
women that would come out. The men
would just disappear into their farms
but the women would take pestles and
what have you and come out. The
Taroks are not like that. In fact if there’s
crisis, we keep our women and children
in the house and tell them not to come
out as we will do the fighting. So it’s
this background that leads to this.
What about the issue of indegenship
and settlers?
The Jarawa in Jos North should be the
ones making the claims but
unfortunately they are so docile that
the Berom are now claiming that the
whole of Jos North is their own, yet they
cannot even keep the Hausa away. But I
would have preferred Jarawa instead of
Berom to champion that cause. The
Jarawa would have had much more
reasons to demand that Jos North is
part of their land.
At the national level, there have
been crises too, Boko Haram in
particular. What do you make of it?
Boko Haram! Western education is not
good. That is what they preach, isn’t it?
They have western education; why will
they now say it is not good? It makes no
meaning to me.
I think they are just causing disaffection
among people. Christians and Muslims
have lived together for ages and there
is no other way. Christians and Muslims
must live together in peace. Nobody
should bring issues that will make us
fight ourselves.
Do you think northern leaders have
done enough to see that-these
problems happening up north.
Insecurity, Boko Haram, youth
unemployment and other things-are
curtailed?
It depends on what you call northern
leaders. Take Kano, for instance. I was
wondering what is Boko Haram? It
might be outside people behind recent
happenings, it might be the same Kano
people. What have Emir of Kano and
other leaders done about it? I have said
that we have no alternative but to live
together. We must live in peace as we
have done over the years.
Currently, the National Assembly is
in the process of amending the
constitution and some traditional
rulers and opinion moulders have
suggested a role for traditional
rulers in the constitution. Do you
support the suggestion?
We chiefs are detached from politics. I
prefer it that way. I prefer the neutral
role that we, chiefs, play. Let the
politicians play their own role.
What is your score for democracy
since 1999 when it started? Has it
paid some dividends?
It must have paid dividends, otherwise
we would have lost it. The military has
kept out of it, which means that we
have accepted it. I pray that it should
go on and coups should no longer have
any part to play.